Re: st: Re: Odds ratio graph - selecting order of bars

[Nick Cox <njcoxstata@gmail.com>]

I meant what I said

"whenever the primary aim is to show variations in totals and a
secondary aim is to show components, it is dubious whether equivalent
charts based on separated bars or dot charts necessarily work better."

People do often have multiple aims in graphics.

I often feel free to suggest that people's aims are misguided, as you
perhaps are doing here, but that's a different story.

On Tufte, the facts are not in dispute and we are just at
cross-purposes. Often I see references to Tufte's four books (period)
and I want to add, as you agree, that he wrote books other than his
four books on graphics.

Nick
njcoxstata@gmail.com


On 10 July 2013 15:59, David Hoaglin <dchoaglin@gmail.com> wrote:
> Nick,
>
> If the aim is to show variations in totals, no bars are needed: Just
> plot a point for each total.  Naomi Robbins has a good example in
> which the horizontal variable is time.  For such data, it may be
> appropriate to connect the points by line segments.  It may work to
> plot and trace each of the components, in addition to the total.
>
> If you were referring to Ed Tufte's other books on graphics, you may
> have meant to say that he wrote them _after_ the one that I cited. For
> completeness, here are the other three (all published by Graphics
> Press):
> Envisioning Information (1990)
> Visual Explanations (1997)
> Beautiful Evidence (2006).
> Ed has written books on topics other than graphics.
>
> David Hoaglin
>
> On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 9:53 AM, Nick Cox <njcoxstata@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I share many of David's prejudices about graphics,  but not all.
>> Stacked or divided bars are, in my view, also over-used in total, but
>> whenever the primary aim is to show variations in totals and a
>> secondary aim is to show components, it is dubious whether equivalent
>> charts based on separated bars or dot charts necessarily work better.
>>
>> Statistical graphics is, like many fields, an odd mixture of sound
>> logic, arbitrary convention and occasional fallacy. I've experimented
>> with groups of students (typical age 20) showing them bar charts and
>> dot charts (in the sense of -graph dot-) of the same data, and there
>> is an overwhelming preference for bar charts. Repeatedly the
>> justification is just familiarity. These students prefer a graph form
>> they have known for  a decade or more and are unwilling to go for
>> something cleaner and simpler. Naturally, the answer is to keep on
>> pushing.
>>
>> In terms of David's (excellent) references, it is too often forgotten,
>> or not appreciated, that Edward Tufte wrote several books before the
>> one cited here. Cleveland's 1985 book went to a second edition in
>> 1994; he self-published from Hobart Press. Robbins' book has just been
>> reissued in a cheaper form by Chart House.
>>
>> Nick
>> njcoxstata@gmail.com
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