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Re: st: Vector degrees of freedom in Stata


From   Joseph Coveney <[email protected]>
To   Statalist <[email protected]>
Subject   Re: st: Vector degrees of freedom in Stata
Date   Fri, 13 Apr 2007 00:52:19 +0900

Roberto G. Gutierrez wrote (excerpted):
. . .

For unbalanced data, test-statistics for fixed effects, whether derived from
ML or REML, are only asymptotically normal.  In such cases, you can try to
go after approximating the distribution with a t with some approximate
degrees of freedom, yet in small samples you aren't even normal to begin
with.  If you increase the sample size so that the t (normal) begins to make
sense, it is also likely that the difference between t and Z is no longer
important.

Asymptotic normality can be a funny and unpredictable thing.  If you make a
small-sample correction on something only asymptotically normal, I don't
think you can even guarantee that your correction is in the right direction.

Now consider cases where the data are _nearly_ balanced.  In these
situations it would make sense to assume that test-statistics are nearly
normal, even in small samples.  As such, a d.f. correction would make sense.

In summary, the answer to Alan's question is "It depends."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you for pointing this out.

After running across a couple of posts from Douglas Bates last year on the
R-help list (
http://finzi.psych.upenn.edu/R/Rhelp02a/archive/76742.html
http://tolstoy.newcastle.edu.au/R/help/06/07/31792.html ) and now Bobby
Gutierrez's post, it's beginning to dawn on me that inserting
DDFM=KENWARDROGER in a SAS PROC MIXED control stream might not be quite the
charm that it was intimated by some to be.

The realization leaves some practical questions in its wake, however:  it
would be good if there were some rules of thumb to gauge when a given-sized
dataset is sufficiently nearly balanced to be able to use degrees-of-freedom
approximations, and what to do otherwise.

Joseph Coveney

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